@Occidental Swordsmen As do I.

I love the notion that Bayonetta is Joker's mom !

@Tyrael007 I believe so. Jung’s ideas were more complex than Freud’s and he actively rebelled against Freud’s ideas iirc, but connections can be made between the two. Jung rejected a lot of Freud’s theories about everything being sexual for example. Idk what he thought of ego/superego/id though.

@Joseph Abrams one derived quite alot of his work from the othere so there quite connected tho right? in terms as if your super ego and your id dont work well togethere aka inflated super ego for example a shadow is borne.

@Joseph Abrams Thx for the correction.

Ego, super ego, and id are Freud. Jung is archetypes.

@Jason Godwin it only looks bad on you when you jump to the defense of some celebrity with the aggressiveness that you had over a basic ass joke. Not even saying anything about his politics but you took a jab at some politician as a personal attack and that might be a sign that its time to take a step back

If only leftists like you would stop preying on children and repeating the same corporate lies you're fed by the DC Swamp.

More like the latter. It's more of dealing with enemies and puzzles, and your allies will actually do damage and can kill bosses alongside you. You'll actually need to sometimes chain baton passes between party members to deal with an enemies weakness.

@Petabik He will probably play it in at least normal, if not the easier new difficulties, as in the persona 4 ZP he explained he does so with JRPGs because he thinks they are grindy. It’s a shame he won’t get the full experience, but oh well.

Considering the things he said he liked about some JRPGs and the fact he is clearly aware of the main series, my guess is he will give it a shot (should be easy for him to get into with the Switch port as well lol) I do wonder what he'll think of it, it has a lot of qualites that sound right up his alley but at the same time it's a full-on turn based JRPG and if you don't try to play it properly it beats the shit out of you

He passed away

@Phil Lemon I was disagreeing more with Rousseau. He was REALLY into nature and believed that if society was burned to the ground and everyone was forced to live in the woods there would be no more strife or conflict ever again. His idea was that people, without being taught anything, would grow up to be good. Like, without even teaching them morality they would already know it by heart. Cool guy, but weird dude.

@masterplusmargarita Keep in mind that the only reason the thieves begin stealing treasures is because of Morgana, a being created by the OG Igor (OGor?) with a natural desire to go out and steal the treasure of place rulers, as well as the knowledge and means of how to do so. I doubt OGor, effectively the steward of the collective unconscious, would make something that would cause it harm. So we can assume that stealing treasures isn't a bad act in and of itself. Yaldaboath's machinations only extend to trying to co-opt the thieves heists and popularity for his game. Since he represents the will of the societal collective, I'm guessing this is to represent how rebellion can be used to further the status quo? But that's just a guess. Also keep in mind that the palace rulers weren't rebelling against society, rather just trying to take control over and rule their own tiny fiefdoms in a pale imitation of what Yaldaboath was doing. And Yaldaboath's plan is treated as wrong in the narrative. The narrative also treats the distortions caused/surrounding treasures as a bad thing, no ifs, ands, or buts. The way the game speaks of it, distortion is a sort of mental illness that ruins a persons cognition of the world around them and turns them evil. The thieves stealing the source of that distortion (the treasure) is treated like curing the palace ruler of said mental illness. Whether or not treating mental illness is an infringement on an individuals free will is a question still debated today, so take that as you will. It's also presented in the game that stealing treasures is a last resort that only happens because people in the real world will be physically harmed if it doesn't happen, which Yahtzee pointed out in his review as the games way of sidestepping the whole morality issue. As for Sae, stealing her treasure was never the end game of the operation IIRC. It was to trick the traitor. I don't think they ever had any intention of stealing Sae's heart, since their plan included having joker change her heart through discussion, which was foreshadowed as possible in Mishima's confidant. The difference between Sae and other palace rulers, like you said, is that 1. they had a means removing her distortion through words and 2. She wasn't an immediate threat to anyone. Also, nepotism (Makoto theorizes that the treasure was their father's notebook, so I doubt she would ever condone stealing it.) As for strikers, I honestly have no idea. Morgana says that desires aren't treasures, and they don't operate like treasures. Taking a treasure doesn't give the thieves control over that person, they're treated more as wart removal. While desires are like traditional brainwashing tools. It's odd.

@masterplusmargarita I think there is a definite answer to the question if it is okay to change the ruler personalities or not. Every philosophic theory that uses the concept of a metaphysical shared subconsciousness has to tie at least partly, the definition of good and evil to this group subconsciousness. So if the rulers personal freedom results in the warping of the cognitive subconscious of the whole society, than the actions of the ruler are judged as generally bad by the subconscious mind of the majority of the population. Now with this concept you also have to apply that there is at least in part a greater good of the hive mind. Some form of ultimate goal society in itself is striding for and e actly this is the point of attack for yaldaboth. To corrupt this hive goal and directing humanity into its servitude because he exploits this collective goal by attacking the collective fear that is the underlying motivation for the existence of society itself. Thats at least my take so far. Damn... this discussion really wants me to replay p5 even more... :p

@Sebastian mit der Axt Oh, there is absolutely room for interpretation there. I think it's kept intentionally vague to encourage discussion. I don't think there's really a definitive answer for this, I'm just sharing my interpretation (and pointing out that doubt is at least cast on the morality of treasure-stealing). My take on the Sae situation is that she was just as "corrupt" as anyone else with a Palace. The game makes clear that Palaces are generated from people with twisted desires, and doesn't make a value judgement on that (Futaba, after all, also has a Palace despite being a good person). Sae's desires led her to do bad stuff, but she was still a good person and so Joker was able to win her over in the interrogation room - the difference is that unlike the other changes of heart they had both the motivation and the opportunity to not use the Metaverse for it (they couldn't exactly have talked Kamoshida, Madarame or Shido out of doing what they were doing). Taking for granted that there's some personality changing there, there's another whole discussion about morality that stems from the Thieves' actions in other Palaces (Is it OK because of how evil the Rulers are? Maybe not, but maybe it's OK because of how bad the consequences of the Rulers actions if their heart hadn't been changed were? and so on), and even given that the only thing you're stealing IS their desire for whatever bad thing there's several discussions (Is Kamoshida still the same person if he doesn't have those menstruous urges? Isn't removing someone's desire still rewriting their personality and effectively erasing the person they are?), but those are too complex for a MNmore comment section, and I'm frankly not that well equipped to have those discusisons.

@masterplusmargarita okay I really need to replay the game, but wasnt Sae not yet completely corrupt? Her desire was "winning cases" and that turned to getting guilty sentences, but you could change her by talking to her shadow self and not stealing the treasure. And yeah you can interpret the scene in Mementos as taking free will, but all of these concepts are really kept vague, and you can insert different philosophical theories about free will and good and evil into them. Some lines of thinking would describe the actions of the Thieds as evil, some would interpret them as good. ANd even after that you can further probe into how free will and perception interact with each other. THe game clearly uses the collective subconsciousness idea and that idea itself can be interpreted as not allowing free will, or at least that not every aspect of your will can be considered free. Fyi: I'm not really arguing here, I just throw ideas around based on my old knowledge of Kant, Jung and shopenhauer from high school. I played vanilla p5 back on release and I honestly thought Strikers wouldn't be this interesting ^^ I will now go and buy strikers and after that replay p5 (royal this time) and brush up on philosophy along the way :P

It's just some banter I think. Don't take it to heart

It is especially neat as he is on record as not liking most jrpgs, but ones like persona and earthbound (weird ones that do something interesting, not just follow tired old tropes), he gets really into.

Same here, although there’s an option to focus on frame rate or to focus on graphics and I never changed mine from frame rate

That said, both of their English dubs are glorious.

Eh I always hate the sub and dub debates. This people claiming the Japanese is superior have zero context to whats being said they could literally say " dog shit taste delicious " and without knowing the language an English speaker will read it as eloquent or well spoken. Its like the British person speaks equals intelligence. In England they sound like everyone else so unless you know the language you can't determine if it's good

@ArkhanNightman it is more so the case in asian language.

@Jonathan Dee Isn't all language context heavy? Like the entire point with language is giving context to your expression.

@Alexander Vladimir because japanese is a very context heavy language. Your tone, intonation, and your body language affect the meaning of your words.

i feel like you're reading way more into it than there is

@Brian Ah alright. Femc feels like a dlc, so you won't get much from the Male mc

@Pablo Zaid thing is uhh, i played FemC first then i played MaleC but never finished that run before my PSP broke

@Brian Oh alright, I get it. Are you playing the femc route? That gives it more variety

@Pablo Zaid no i mean I played it before XD i did the whole 9 yards years ago, it was my first Persona game, but i still remember pretty much everything that happened specially watching the movies

@Brian Well yeah Tartarus kinda sucks. The story and characters are great, it's a shame that you spoiled yourself :(

same

@SB0083 yeah Matpat just doesn’t even try to understand even the most basic rules of the Persona world (your Shadow is your Persona and vice versa)

@Bandicoot Sauce The last time Game Theory covered Persona, it was so bad, MattPatt had to post a public apology.

They need to get Yahtzee on a Game Theory episode about Persona 5.

Morgana being a talking cat is way more relevant to his personality than his skills as a thief.

Yes, and yahtzee probably didn't think it was important enough to mention or just forgot.

@Paul Saiz For a 5-year-old game? Where even the Publisher lifted the spoiler embargo? Whose sequel we are watching? Where Yahtzee is explaining every minute detail? I'm sorry but there is just zero expectation to not be spoiled when the content of this stream is a spoiler.

Spoilers?

The crashes are a PC only problem

PC version has crashed for me about three times now, but it has all been on the first Jail so I’m curious to see if it happens with other parts of the game. Also been trying to stream it so that might be making it harder on my setup.

I find the PC port pretty stable

@Brian Wierd. I only got 2 crashes too

@cmallory7511 Yeah I played it on Switch.

@John Green Badum tss~

Is it fair to say, you never saw it coming? Don't worry, it won't be the last surprise.

Crashed during the second boss on Switch for me.

I've had one crash on steam out of 18 hours on the current save, only lost 2 minutes of backtracking luckily so I lucked out.

@Sebastian mit der Axt independent. Bravely second is the sequel (like ffx-2), bravely default 2 is like ff12

Well, but bravely default has the horrible second half of chapters 5 till 8... true ending was worth it, but oh boy the way was sure tedious... (atleast grinding levels and job xp is easy with auto battle and fast mode) I never played the sequel bravely second. Is BD2 a sequel or a new independent story? (aka. The final fantasy numbering ^^)