Reverse Engineering | Yahtzee's Dev Diary

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  1. Johnny Wings

    Johnny Wings

    2 өдрийн өмнө

    Hey Yahtz the concept you're talking about was already done in Superhot: Mind Alt Delete.

  2. Mist of Mists

    Mist of Mists

    2 өдрийн өмнө

    Clay giants fighting each other, assimilating others clay to grow.

  3. Boris van Riet

    Boris van Riet

    3 өдрийн өмнө

    Now I know Yatzhee is probally not gonna make the “reverse progression” concept, atleast not in a while but here are some. The idea of progression, especialy in a platformer context, is not to overload the player and ofcourse make them feel more powerful. To feel a rise to glory, while this is a fall from glory. Contextually, maybe the Knight was some of this power so does not know how to fully use it in context. Part if the villains spite could be that this power is not earned. Maybe the villain starts respects the Knight in his final moments, as the Knight won in the end through skill and will. Although I did have a concept. Maybe the hero can collect “loot” by exploring. Possibly some require some abilities, but that might be frustrating or it might be cool for people playing it again? Knowing what to keep. Now the loot would be for consumable items. The idea in context being that you are using these to replace your natural (and perhaps gifted) abilities. The trade off is that...the sneaky stab did actually wound you and you need surgery from the merchant who appears after each boss/before the next level. If you cannot cough up the cost you will lose a health bar. You want to replace what power you lost with one use items? Wel perhaps that health bar is not that important after all... Other concept: All bosses return atleast once, and do not change. They have some revival artifact or something. The second go arounds leading up to the final rematch is harder because your now weaker, not because the monster is stronger now or taking you more serious. And lastly...perhaps a new game plus mode, where you lose more powers each battle you win? With perhaps different dialogue to reward you for doing so?

  4. GamerbyDesign


    4 өдрийн өмнө

    that last boss battle sounds like a pain in the D.

  5. Adam Rodgers

    Adam Rodgers

    4 өдрийн өмнө

    For Reverse Engineering, I think the key would the the story. You have to make the players invested in their loss, rather than it just be an annoyance.

  6. Onza22


    4 өдрийн өмнө

    You need to call the regression game "Tis but a scratch"

  7. OxyGentleman


    5 өдрийн өмнө

    RTS where you only control the enemies

  8. ThePCguy17


    5 өдрийн өмнө

    It might be a wise idea to, for the sake of causality making sense, pause before the blow lands and then have the player choose what they lose, before having a few different 'spite attack' animations that make losing said ability make sense somehow. Just to add some texture to the system. At the very least there needs to be some sort of text box describing why our arbitrary menu navigation has resulted in the loss of a gameplay ability, like, "The blow destroyed your amulet of double jump," or "the blow wounded you so badly that it took 40 years to recover and so you can no longer sprint because you're old and decrepit now," or something like that. It also might be a good idea for our last ability gem to suddenly develop the ability to move, unless ability gems get established as something that a gain (or loss since the game's all about loss of abilities) of willpower can effect. Hell, you could even draw out the length of the game by having a few glorious occasions where you come across new abilities/have an opportunity to rekindle an old one, just to twist the knife harder when you inevitably have to drop them again. That sort of thing would really help with first time players who might not realize how much they regret dropping a particular ability until after it's too late, even if it would have to be done on like a maximum of three occasions to avoid spoiling the tone.

  9. heresjonny666


    5 өдрийн өмнө

    I had this same idea for a game, but my plot revolved around something more like a villain doing a heel face turn and gradually destroying mcguffins that are part of his power until he's left as basically a normal dude who has to face down some enemy. I think the last boss idea you had is a bit micro-managey, but the rest is worth trying!

  10. Rory


    6 өдрийн өмнө

    Navigate social encounters using nerd language i.e. "In my DND..."

  11. HaberdashingRogue


    6 өдрийн өмнө

    This idea could work over a proof of concept style thing by having it be a roguelite where the purpose is recursion. I.E. a character being forced through a loop over and over again, trying to scrape some way out of the loop even while they are personally worn down by a world that keeps resetting. Puts the weight on the core gameplay loop and the narrative rather than a series of sprawling levels. Just make one super dense level. You could include crawling as a seemingly superfluous mechanic, only for it to be essential if/when you finally have to get rid of jumping, as an idea.

  12. GregTom2


    6 өдрийн өмнө

    Hey Yahtzee did you have that idea before or after writing Mogworld?

  13. GregTom2


    6 өдрийн өмнө

    I think that would be a lovely concept to match with ethical choices. Remember that game Vampyre where killing npcs was the way to level up your powers. Turns out that killing somebody in exchange for a power you don't know how to use and learned how to play without for 6 hours isn't very appealing. You don't commit yourself to being a non-murderer, but you keep telling yourself, I'll get back to killing that guy later if I'm underpowered. And you just get good and you never come back. Now, what if we made that choice a little bit more difficult by taking away a power that you've grown to use as a crutch for your lack of skills with the game mechanics, in exchange for saving somebody. The challenge is that if you start the game with too many abilities, it might feel overwhelming for the player, so I would suggest a story arc where you start at 50% of your powers to learn the basic mechanics, then you quickly gain your powers in a context where you're forced to learn to use them to progress, going to 67, 83, then 100% of your power in three chapters, then you're forced to go back to 90 then 80%, and then harder and harder choices allow you to remain at 80% or sacrifice yourself down to 20%, always needing to 'get good' with a harder mechanic to just get by.

  14. First Name Last Name

    First Name Last Name

    7 өдрийн өмнө

    It should be a curse, not a series of wounds, that falls into the “win in the game, lose in the cutscene” type bullshit

  15. Epicmonk117


    7 өдрийн өмнө

    I really like that idea for the game, at least from the story perspective. I've always had an interest in the idea of a hero who, in their final battle, takes enough of a beating to floor a dragon, but through sheer force of will, is able to keep fighting until they win, at which point they keel over and finally die.

  16. licidy1


    7 өдрийн өмнө

    Sunk-cost fallacy is a good flaw, but it is not really a motivation. Motivation must be high enough that the cost is not recognized until it feels like it's too late to turn back. Lots if praise and encouragement from NPCs during the first act helps to set this up, si that by the last act they can be begging you not to go through with it. Some musings on the concept... what if the power gems you sacrifice is the mcguffin needed to seal away the boss, like a final component in a binding ritual. You could be absorbing the evil of the bosses, slowly corrupting yourself and losing your powers before ultimately becoming the embodiment of the evil you initially came down to face. Or, you could invert the downward spiral to one of redemption, keeping with the heroic action through sacrifice motif. Questing to reverse divine beings who where stripped of a portion of their souls to make the magic gems you wield, and only by incapacitating them and returning the gem to their bodies can the beings be uncorrupted.

  17. Jacek Nawrat

    Jacek Nawrat

    7 өдрийн өмнө

    I do think you're gonna crash into the instinct to avoid loss on that one... I'm a former eve online player, pressure from the krill wanting to avoid losses is what killed that one

  18. iunary


    7 өдрийн өмнө

    Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne Had a campaign that kinda was reverse leveling, where Arthas the death knight started at lvl 10 at the beginning of the campaign and was racing to get to the source of his power before it was destroyed, so he was losing one of his levels every mission getting progressively weaker as the story went along.

  19. Keinish79


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    I remember warcraft 3 having Arthas losing power/levels. Still you had the rest of the army to pull you through, but it was fun in that game.

  20. Disthron


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    *The last gem pt 2* I took the idea in a different direction. Where instead of incurring wounds you were traveling back in time to previous versions of yourself. Kind of like the lead character in Buttifly Effect. So maybe some aspects carry over, like knowledge, but are not as effective as your body is not as trained? I wouldn't have had the thing where you start loosing your ability to walk or whatever, that just seems like a bit much...or a lot much rather.

  21. Disthron


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    *The last gem* ...Why doesn't the boss just kill you? And if I could get extra gems now why couldn't I do that before I lost the ability to do everything and then one has to ask... why am I bothering at that point?

  22. TheOriginalKZero


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    I definitely like the concept, but wonder if adding some ways to avoid loss would be a bad idea. Help from ally, alternate route, quick time event... that kinda thing. Definitely not all avoidable of course though.

  23. Rick Daniel

    Rick Daniel

    8 өдрийн өмнө

    My 10-words-or-less game pitch is: Deck-building roguelike mix with a drinking game.

  24. Rick Daniel

    Rick Daniel

    8 өдрийн өмнө

    If you were to do a demo of your “lose abilities as you progress” game, I would have it be in a semi-middle level of the story and have the player remove three of their many abilities before playing. It could have endless replay value seeing how you would progress with what remaining powers.

  25. Robert Falk

    Robert Falk

    8 өдрийн өмнө

    I don't personally see much entertainment in the reverse progression idea. Not my cup of tea, I guess.

  26. drkinferno72


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    11 more days until I can ask where it is

  27. Colopty


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    Regarding the mention of needing some way to prevent the player from getting into the final area while still overpowered, there's also the possibility of simply letting the player get into the final area with their full kit if they can manage to do so. In that case you could do something like the abilities breaking if you use them past a certain threshold, making it a strategy game where you have to evaluate the tradeoff between using an ability to progress immediately or if you should save it for later.

  28. Mikman360


    8 өдрийн өмнө

    Leveling backwards just reminded me of the meditation sequence that Poo did in Earthbound.

  29. Bart Massey

    Bart Massey

    8 өдрийн өмнө

    Reverse progression is a staple of Call of Cthulhu and later games modeled on it. The PC inevitably slowly degrades into madness as a result of encounters with the unfathomable beyond.

  30. BrainStrommiing


    9 өдрийн өмнө

    I don’t believe that taking whole options away from the player is a good way to make the player feel like he is getting weaker as he plays along. You’d only feel weaker from having to give up an ability if it was something you actually used anyway. I feel that in a game with a set-up like this the player would quickly try to focus on using as few options as possible anyway so as not to get attached too much when he has to inevitably give it up. The result of this would be that the playstyle you have when you go into the final boss won’t actually be that different than the one you developed after defeating the first or second boss (depending on when you realized that you probably shouldn’t spend too much time mastering a mechanic that you won’t have for the whole game anyway) The fact that you get to choose which upgrades you get rid up would probably make it even easier to just not engage with most of the upgrades. The fact that I can give up my ranged attack now almost certainly means that there is not a single point in the game where I’ll be required to use it. I’ll keep it for now but I won’t actually use it so that I don’t miss it when I do lose it. The result of this would be that for the canny player it probably won’t feel like a gradually decline in strength but rather as a sudden drop depending on how long it takes until they have to give up something they do actually care about. I think the most difficult part of a creating a game designed to make the player feel weaker over time is to empower the player in such a way that they can’t gimp themselves in such a way to not feel the power loss. (or at least, not easily). The player shouldn’t be able to simply avoid using the tools you intend to take away from them, the tools should be things they almost can’t help but use almost instinctively. This means that anything that is mapped to a unique button probably shouldn’t be something that ever gets completely lost because then I can just train myself to not press that button. The easiest thing is probably to delevel by altering the scope of the tools you are supposed to use. In some sword fighting games you have a flying slash which means you don’t have to stand next to your opponent to be able to hit them with your sword, when you press the slash button you can end up hitting them either with your initial slash or if you were a little further away with your flying slash. The flying part is a ranged option you can not avoid it just happens automatically which means that if you take that away later in the game the player will feel weaker because he’s still doing the same thing but without the same reach. It is also a lot harder to just avoid the ranged part of this attack because you don’t really know what the reach of the sword is until the flying part has been disabled. Slowly decreasing the area, you can affect with a single action seems like an easier way to make you genuinely notice you’re getting weaker. Another thing you could do is removing (semi-)automatic combos. A game in which you forget combos as the games goes on with combos basically being nothing more than mashing the attack button. Whereas in the beginning you could do a quick one-two punch by pressing A in quick succession eventually an arm gets cut of and you only the ability to throw that second punch. Doing the same attack twice obviously takes longer than the one-two punch which makes you do less damage. It also requires you to adjust your timing in a way you couldn’t be prepared for because the combo just happened automatically when attacking again. The concept of deleveling can be interesting, I just think you have to be careful to no make the optimal way to play the game to be to just not engage with most of the game.

  31. HeartySquid


    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Add on to the de-leveling thing... Hero sealing away darkness, via sacrificing power. Spoilers... Spacing... Have a helper imp thing betray you at the end...its set you up since the start because it knew you'd be weaker but now you have to beat a stronger imp as only a mere human.

  32. Like a Leaf in the Wind

    Like a Leaf in the Wind

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Leveled backwards? "Hero Must Die. Again." (Yes, that's a game. PS4.)

  33. Preda Y.

    Preda Y.

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Didn't Noah Gervais mention, in one of his videos, listening to a short piece of fiction where a video game was described in which a princess protagonist was progressively disempowered as the game progressed?

  34. Cameron Johnson

    Cameron Johnson

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    I'm not sure why, but the concept feels almost friendlier to a horror game. Showing the hero becoming more corrupt, powerless and useless until they can't go on anymore, whilst forcing the player to acknowledge their limited strength is constantly running out. Maybe this is the climax of StarStruck Vagabond, with all your hard earned upgrades slowly being torn away in your final few missions ?

  35. Ingo Lingo

    Ingo Lingo

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Maybe you have the ability to swap out gems from the very start of the game. But you can only do so in-between stages. I personally hate the idea of losing something permanently. In this case you still have access to everything, it just gets harder and harder to manage your resources as you go along. This introduces the swapping out gems mechanic much earlier and keeps the player from having to restart the game because they didn't fully understand what they had lost. And it allows you to let the player learn all of the skills naturally rather then a big long tutorial at the start.

  36. WaywardScythe


    9 өдрийн өмнө

    There's a switch JRPG/VN where you're the hero who was ganked by the last boss but so powerful that you take two weeks to die, so you spend it finishing up things with your party members and arranging your funeral as you get weaker. Haven't played it but maybe give it a look.

  37. Generic Username

    Generic Username

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Reverse conversion, otherwise known as "a quest too far"

  38. Jared Veale

    Jared Veale

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Here is a game that I would quit the second I lost an ability

  39. mewbusi


    9 өдрийн өмнө

    So yahtzee, for as much as the idea of reverse progression might intrigue. Loss aversion would greatly hinder enjoyment. However, there is another method that is much more sensible, that being never providing upgrades to the hero and instead giving them to enemies. Overwhelm is a great example of this tbh, and while I understand my opinion is simply in a sea of others, I would greatly suggest not pursuing this idea of reverse progression.

  40. Dan Slash

    Dan Slash

    9 өдрийн өмнө

    Add permanent wounds the player can suffer throughout the levels. These wounds should be avoidable so players are rewarded for mastery of the game. Maybe the type of wounds or severity of wounds could dictate what ability you lose by the end, or add some modifier to encourage the players to pick that ability. Shield arm is severly wounded, if you don't choose to lose only the block ability you'll have to choose two other abilities.

  41. geldonyetich


    9 өдрийн өмнө

    The reverse progression idea is problematic because the point of progression is not necessarily just to reward players. It's to give players access to wider depth of gameplay mechanics when they're ready for it. If you strip away their abilities as they approach endgame, you're just forcing them to endure increasingly shallow gameplay. Unless maybe you have such a glorious core gameplay loop that everything you added to it was vestigial.

  42. jeff bloke

    jeff bloke

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    couldn't you write it backwards? i'm sure someone's already said this, like, 322 times.

  43. math


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    If it's a 2D platformer I think it would be cheeky to have the levels progress right to left instead of the usual left to right

  44. Mark Whitmee

    Mark Whitmee

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    I like the idea of the reverse progression mechanic for a game similar to "'Loop Hero."' Starting with a built out map that you're slowly forced to decide which bits disappear as the hero's memory deteriorates. The loss of these pieces reduces the hero's capability as he forgets the lessons and experiences tied to those places, making the same enemies more difficult over time.

  45. zylo202


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    Only Issue I see Yahtzee would be that by removing player ability's your not just increasing difficulty, your removing the "fun". There is a sever risk of boring the player with an uninteresting move set that is not enjoyable to play with. The real challenge of this game concept would be making the fundamental abilities (the ones the player can't lose to the very end) so tight and enjoyable that the player wouldn't become bored. (Say the basic attacks and abilities of shovel knight?) If you can manage that I think the game concept would work and the loss of fun, but not necessary for enjoyment, abilities would create that satisfactory difficulty curve. Another option would be to find some way to give the player some sort of upgrade or advancement that still feels like fun progress but doesn't detract from them losing abilities. Maybe health potions heal more or faster. Or perhaps you can make some of the lesser enemies weaker as well as they are just as worn out and tired as the hero? Or maybe give the player the ability to set checkpoints, and they get more checkpoints to set per level as they lose abilities? Anyways just a thought.

  46. Brian Lancaster

    Brian Lancaster

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    What's the itch link to this game? Is this Fun Space Game: The Game?

  47. The Arsehole Irishman

    The Arsehole Irishman

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    perhaps in this reverse level game, the protagonist gets their powers through some dark evil thing, like unholy gods or whatever have you, and they're trying to break free from their grasp. Each boss is one of these entities and as they fall power is lost, meaning you must choose carefully which ones to fight in what order, so you have the powers required to fight back. Naturally every boss should be possible, but perhaps one is weak to fire and you might want to keep your fireball until you beat him.

  48. Steve Man

    Steve Man

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    There's a roguelike called A Quest Too Far where you play a veteran and become weaker as you level up due to old age.

  49. Storm Mk9

    Storm Mk9

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    I'm seeing a lot of people sayig that the whole swapping the gem around at the end thing seems annoying, and honestly, it kind of does, unless it's done well, like maybe you can swap it via a weapon-wheel style system like a lot of shooter games have, or maybe something similar to that.

  50. Moleo


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    The reverse progression idea does crop up in Wacrcraft 3 (The Frozen Throne expansion). In 1st campaign you damage the Frozen Throne which supplies the undead with their power. Then in the 2nd campaign you play as the undead, and your main hero Arthus loses levels after each mission. However, you have an entire army to control in this RTS game, so while this does hit fairly hard emotionally, practically you're still fairly capable. It is inconvenient and narratively interesting to lose power on each mission, but not utterly gamechanging.

  51. Havelock Vetinari

    Havelock Vetinari

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    Isn't the plot mechanic to Warcraft 3 the Frozen Throne?

  52. The Raging Englishman

    The Raging Englishman

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    I've had the reverse levelling idea before as well but my take on it is you play as the final boss, not the hero. The basic premise is with any game the boss is too strong so the world sees him as a threat but he just wants to be left alone, so he gets the idea to go looking for heroes to give his powers to, the more heroes there are the safer the world will feel and the less likely he is to be seen as a threat. Those powers then end up corrupting the heroes meaning the boss has to go back and fight them all for real to get them back, make the world a safer place and live a quiet life being hounded by weaker heroes but not being overly bothered by it anymore.

  53. Hello There

    Hello There

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    The reverse rpg idea thingy could work with a prototype. So the game should be designed with multiple solutions so that you can actually progress. So the prototype could be a short level with a boss. You start with all your powers and when you beat the boss you can restart the level taking away skills from the start and let it loop x amount of times.

  54. Eric Stapleford

    Eric Stapleford

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    "Action RPG with reverse progression" could easily be themed after the Iliad/Odyssey, with the progression of the war/journey home slowly wearing out the player character throughout

  55. Alder Godric

    Alder Godric

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    I actually had an idea for integrating reverse progression in narrative a month back, when I was preparing an entry exam for a university. Basically, you played as a man in a mythologised antique China, who travelled the world in order to ask various local spirits/gods to make the most beautiful clothes that could ever be for him. I envisioned it as a puzzle/platformer but it can be adapted to other things, the important part being that the powers are string-related (like a grappling hook, tying two objects together, etc...) At the end of each level, the god/spirit would accept to work on part of the clothes, but would ask the character to give up one of his strings, so that he may use it for sewing. By the "end" of the game you basically have no powers left but with absolutely magnificent clothes. Then the character understands the good old basic lesson of the story, he was better off when he didn't have the fancy clothes. Modesty is cool, vaguely pseudo-Buddhist themes activate, the character relinquishes the clothes and recovers his powers for the true final level which uses all of it again.

  56. AcidWolfEntertainment


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    The idea of losing an ability each level could also work if every ability you retain gets stronger. It's a little like life. What you work at for 40 years, you become extra good at. What skills you failed to develop all those years, you can't learn as easily as an old person as you could as a kid. In a game it could work in a mmorpgr where at max level only one person can heal, only one person can fight at all, only one person can do any kind of support buffs, etc. Encourage teamwork by limiting available skills and making solo runs almost impossible.

  57. rix0r222


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    What if after you beat the last boss (the first time) you lose your last ability, which is to live, and thus you die. As a hero. And the game's over and there's no cheeky after-death anything.

  58. Magpie GD

    Magpie GD

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    Gotta be honest, the way you described that idea sounds....really unfun. Next to the core gameplay loop, player abilities tend to be the most essential part of a game. More often than not they're what you build the core loop out of. If you strip away essential abilities one at a time, that's just going to be more and more frustrating to the point of unbearability, sincd the longer a player holds on to an ability, the more they'd come to rely on it. Not to mention it would be incredibly difficult to manage in terms of enemy design. If the player ditched the ability to dodge off the bat, then any fast melee enemies would be incredibly difficult to handle. RPG upgrades tend to focus alot on number values and ability variance. In that sense,, I think downgrading abilities instead of eliminating them is the way to go. While it may seem less...anti-game-ish (?)..., it would allow the player to rely on their most fundamental abilities throughout the game, while still communicating the narrative context of constantly weakening as you fight on, and create the intent of a rising difficulty curve. Start the player hurling fire tornados, and by the end they can barely conjure a spark. Incredibly weakened, but you're not throwing wrenches at the player by eliminating mechanics.

  59. Thenonymous1


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    An alternate storyline for this concept could be this: Rather than have a boss monster issue a curse, you could say that the hero once saved the world by gathering some kind of macguffin which bestowed abilities and came in pieces. Now the world is falling apart because the macguffin held everything in place, so the hero has to return the items to their place or the world will end.

  60. Tormuse


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    For the record, when I was playing the previous build of Starstruck Vagabond, I was deliberately colliding with asteroids and dust clouds, because they give me something to do. Fixing the damage from the asteroids helps you level up faster. (And I didn't notice any difference in anything from traveling through a dust cloud) I'll have to see how it compares to this version.

  61. addex 123

    addex 123

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    Holy shit the Starstruck is looking cool

  62. Taylor Kmoch

    Taylor Kmoch

    10 өдрийн өмнө

    Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP had a mechanic where you get weaker as you go, although not as in-depth as described here. Every boss takes away part of your life, until at the end you have very little health to work with. Really interesting game

  63. Jetz


    10 өдрийн өмнө

    I feel like the repetition of having the protagonist be constantly hit by the boss's crippling last attacks at the end of every single section of gameplay might start to wear down the impact of it through predictability. Might fit better as some kinda curse placed upon them?

  64. aprofondir


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Lisa had the losing of limbs and abilities!

  65. mwbullen15


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    The dust clouds could use "pink noise randomness". They have a 95% chance of doing little or nothing to your systems and a 5% chance of damaging/dirtying them badly.

  66. mutalord


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    the idea i pitched wasnt that far off, it was a team that you have to eliminate a member at certain points

  67. Genesis Wave

    Genesis Wave

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    The regression RPG game is literally Hero Must Die

  68. Alan2022


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    On the topic of regression; how about a rts where you are a powerful overlord and can expend your own xp to speed up you soldiers' leveling. If a soldier dies you must expend maybe 3x the xp they had to revive them. You would want to revive them either because of attachment or they had unique abilities. The gameplay loop would be something like Battle for Wesnoth.

  69. Russell Golden

    Russell Golden

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Rather than make the whole game, why not just prototype one stage and and a loop to reiterate through it losing abilities. You’ll have a good idea what works and you can test your first boss is last boss idea as well.

  70. geoantennae


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    man, i remember a flash game with a semi-similar concept to the deleveling thing, where you play as a robot created to shut down some sort of dangerous machine and save everyone - but every time you hit a button, there's a percentage chance that you will malfunction and nothing will happen instead. the longer you play, the higher that percentage chance gets, until just getting around is a struggle. it really communicated that feeling of self-sacrifice that you're trying to capture in your game idea (though i imagine yours would be a little less frustrating haha). now if only i could remember what that flash game was called...

  71. Dylan Green

    Dylan Green

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    The whole "start overpowered and level backwards" idea is pretty similar to a flash game called Epic Battle Fantasy (or something like that), a turn based RPG where your party starts at max level. There's no leveling or getting new abilities or anything, you start with everything. You fight through different worlds, and the first few are trivially easy, and the enemies are absolutely no threat to you. Then you come to the realization that the game is a marathon. If you used a bunch of items and special abilities while playing around with the weaker enemies, you'll be unprepared when things get harder down the road. There's a bit of an "oh shit" moment when you get to the point where enemies can actually kill you

  72. John Allison

    John Allison

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Interesting concept, instead of having the protagonist unavoidably wounded by every boss causing the loss of abilities, it might be better to frame the loss as a the protagonist choosing to sacrifice. Kind of like a reverse of Shadow of the Colossus, you choose to sacrifice part of your "essence" to seal away the boss etc and the mechanic of that essence loss is losing an ability. That way it should feel more like the player is engaging with the mechanic instead of the player being arbitrarily being punished for progressing. You could even frame the entire story around the concept, especially if you actually give the player a choice to sacrifice an ability or not on each boss. You could make the only way to truly end the game is to eventually choose to sacrifice parts of yourself to seal away the bosses. If they choose not to then maybe after defeating the final boss the game sends you back to the beginning to start again a la Earthworm Jim or Hades. After the first loop reveal the protagonist is in some kind of karmic limbo or hell with the only way to earn their freedom is to successfully defeat and seal away all the bosses. There are any number of mythos, cultures, and/or belief systems you could use as the game setting.

  73. spurguVITUNhuora


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I always thought the best way to implement the revers RPG consept would be to start as a walking tank, and along the journey, switch all your weapons to new ways of movement. At the end you could jump and fly and whatnot but no longer bombard everything. Maybe that would only work in a huge triple a game, since Ive been mostly thinking of this when playing Just Cause and Saints row.

  74. Richard L

    Richard L

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    For what it's worth, Sword & Sworcery - one of those early pixel-graphics indie darlings - actually did a "reverse progression" mechanic. As you messed with the, well, the Triforce, you essentially lost health and thus leeway for error during fights.

  75. Spanish Vanguardia

    Spanish Vanguardia

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Yahtzee, if you force a player to choose to only have access to one of five basic movement mechanics (yes I'm counting visibility), you're falling in the same pit as balan wonderthatthingamjig.

  76. Doovstoover


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I guess it could be cool if the 'delevelling' actually felt like you were learning a gameplay skill rather than losing an ability. So for example in the first level you're essentially in God Mode: flying, invincible to bullets, phasing through obstacles etc. Then when you lose the phasing ability you're having to learn to move past obstacles yourself, losing invincibility means having to dodge bullets, losing flight means having to navigate platforms, losing jump means having to reassess your approach again, and so on. You could feasibly do it with just one level repeating itself, but with all the various obstacles and enemies only becoming a concern as you de-power. Also it would be kinda fun if the big boss at the end is the weediest little goomba minion that you squished first thing in the very first level.

  77. Matt C

    Matt C

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    A tycoon builder where you actively sabotage your competition. This an idea me and my friends have had for years, but I'll leave all the details to you because you're better. Flatter flatter.

  78. Lulaire Noroub

    Lulaire Noroub

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Learn how to relinquish a thought. Fantastic advice. Impossible to follow.

  79. Dorth Lous

    Dorth Lous

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    There's a few pokémon roms out there that did/do that. Pokémons leveling backward.

  80. Potidaon


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    So the final boss is a reverse Vergil, in other words. I can easily see that working in an action RPG or a Castlevania style game. Not so much an "character action" game, though. Maybe in a shooter or a stealth game, where you lose tools and weapons, or your skills are weakened. The Battle Arena in Final Fantasy VII does something similar, where at the end of each match, you have to spin a roulette wheel of randomly selected abilities (and status effects). However, you also get a point boost for sacrificing something. Of course, it's random, and if you're really good as well as lucky you can cheat the system to some extent. But the randomness adds a lot of flexibility to it,

  81. orangeboi 33

    orangeboi 33

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    man i wish we could see a new era spec ops the line, but instead of critizing third person shooters plagued by chest high walls and dumb cover systems its critizing the Jiminy Cockthroat model of games

  82. 3D Printing Professor

    3D Printing Professor

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    There was a short story called "Navigators" by Mike Meginnis that basically describes the idea of a game with a degradation mechanic, only this one goes about it in a Zen Buddhism sort of slant. One thing that happens in the game is when you're brought so low that you can't even walk, small holes that were impossible for you to navigate open up to you. So even though you're losing abilities, you still gain mobility in a strange way. It was an interesting idea and an interesting story because of the father and son pair that were playing it in the story that served as the vehicle. The story appeared in THE BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 2012 or it was read on the podcast "LeVar Burton Reads", which is where I encountered it. I doubt Yatzee reads these, though. Any idea where I could put this comment so he will see it?

  83. Steven Marshall

    Steven Marshall

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Didn't transistor have a variation of this concept of losing powers by having limiters? Picking certain handicaps as you go?

  84. TheDawnTreader1


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    they did leveling backwards in warcraft 3 the rts long before wow

  85. accquizzer


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Now that would be a true Souls-like: losing your abilities over time would really force you to "git gud"

    • Stephen


      10 өдрийн өмнө

      Except a huge part of the souls game is ability to die as many times as necessary to learn the high difficulty curve aspects. This seems like unless you balance really well you are punishing new players primarily here. I think they had permanent loss in demon souls and wasn't that criticized? I don't actually remember so I could be lying.

  86. Mad Machanicest

    Mad Machanicest

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    if you make that leveling backward game should have an unlockable speed run mod were you don't lose anything if you don't get hit. that way you have to a perfect run in order to keep everything.

  87. TheCivildecay


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    4:40 there was a short story about a devorced father and a son that bonded over playing a fictional NES game where they played a princess that lost a ability whenever she progressed in the game (which was a metaphor for the life of the dad falling apart after the devorce). It was quite good and I always wanted to make the game that was described in the story... too bad I can't rememeber the title of the story

  88. vovanchicalt


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    *Superhot: Mind Control Delete* does something like that in the final stretch of the game: it gradually strips you of upgrades and after that - of basic functionality including walking and sight. But in SH: MCD point is to stop playing to proceed further. Someone already mentioned *Sinner: Sacrifice for Redemption*. There you lose fixed ability depending on the boss you chose, so it is order of bosses, that matters. But you have a twist there: you can defeat boss and gain some flat HP and Stamina bonii, or you can banish him completely and loose both the ability and refusing a bonus - but you need to do that to get golden ending. Both games are quite underappreciated, I enjoyed backward progression to no end.

  89. E1craZ4life


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    All 12 Dev Diary games combined into one giant game.

  90. Sinthisyze


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I feel like the 'reverse progression' idea would make more sense and be less frustrating in a strategy/resource management sort of game, like XCOM, or maybe managing a ship/small group of ships. The game's difficulty goes up as you make use of finite and slowly dwindling resources. This can be controlled via the story: perhaps a desperate kamikaze by your air transportation or sacrifice of yet another named character the player must decide they are willing to remove as the campaign marches on. Even worse is you can watch the moral of your troops and workers fall with each choice and you can feel them rightly judging your and your decision. Look around your once thriving base to see the once several power plants you had brought down to 1 due to overuse, the empty hangar that once had your fighters, several empty beds reminding you of the people you lost. The ending is this: the final boss, an invading force back to finally take you down after being worn down by a seemingly endless wave of troops, forces you to choose between things like sending power to comms to communicate with your troops, swap back to aerial view so you can actually survey the map, power to a drone to send in supplies to troops or to specific weapons. All hope seems lost... until an engineer you thought was lost to a coma wakes up and gets the power going to one of the plants running properly. A small scouting party you assumed gone returns, and you send them to scavenge parts as you desperately hold off with what you got to get your base up and running. That military aid that you forgot was coming arrives to support you, only because you managed to last this long. From the jaws of defeat, you manage to snatch victory, because despite your painful sacrifices, you held on. You held on the hope that you could win. Your systems come back online, the lights turn on, you select an area to send an aerial strike, you have a drone you thought useless before shielding a fighter, you set all your guns on a single target, and with the last bit of time and power you have for this move, you send a cheeky message to your enemy.

  91. AlEcyler


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I designed a TTRPG which treats injury like the reverse progression. As injuries build up (no healing), the tension naturally ramps. I can confirm that it can be effective but needs a little mediated.

  92. Axel Prino

    Axel Prino

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I think the deleveling idea could work but it might be too front loaded mechanically. Maybe a fix would be that not even at the start you have enough "power gems" to activate everything and that you have to choose what you want at every checkpoint, you don't lose specific moves but rather the number of moves you can access at the same time. If you also tie the gems to the maximum health then the general difficulty would also go up when you lose a gem.

  93. over mind

    over mind

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    reverse progression seems like a nice idea ill fiddle around with that too

  94. Lucy Tycho

    Lucy Tycho

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I really like the reverse leveling mechanic, it does seem like it would complement a narrative very well. However, I think they would work better for level design for the choices to be fixed by the story: i.e. a boss destroys the hero's shield so they can no longer block. The next level can then be designed around that challenge or lack of ability. Forcing the difficult choices is interesting too, but I would worry that the player would get stuck with a lack of certain abilities, or be unable to find treasure and make it more frustrating than sacrificial. This concept seems like it would work better in a procedural roguelike context, where the experience is short and not so punishing to restart if the player's choices were suboptimal



    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I worry that simply taking a player's abilities away without gaining anything in exchange, especially fundamental stuff like the ability to move around and perceive their surroundings will just make the game increasingly frustrating to play, even if it's to serve the story. The minigame Demontower in Night in the Woods kinda played with this concept, where in the first level you had lots of max health and one charge for your evade, but with each progressive level you lost a unit of health and got another evade charge in exchange until the final boss where you are literally one hit from death but have all the evasive capabilities you need.

  96. Josh Russell

    Josh Russell

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Where it is?

  97. Brendan Lawrence

    Brendan Lawrence

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Interesting idea. Seems like the loss of a gem should accompany some sort of character arc, ie "I've lost my right arm, which makes me appreciate my left arm more". Maybe strengthen the gems that are remaining, as a sort of existential need to idealize our limitations. Or maybe that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, yeah?!

  98. Mad Scientist Moses

    Mad Scientist Moses

    11 өдрийн өмнө

    I think downgrading the character makes sense, but I would be hesitant to actually remove mechanics. For example - perhaps at the beginning your parry is instant, but it gets downgraded to have a half second of lag.

  99. Gretgor


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    "Make a mess, then clean it up before mom arrives."

  100. FORGE705


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    It would be cool to have each “skill” tied to a piece of equipment on the player-character. So not only does the move list get smaller as the game progresses, but the character has less armor/weapons/gear/etc. until it’s pretty much a guy in his underwear using his fists.