Is Joel or Kratos The Better Father Figure? | Slightly Civil War

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  1. Erudito


    11 өдрийн өмнө

    Lest we forget, Kratos murdered his first kid and wife, due to a power he prayed to Ares for, and then went on a tantrum-like genocidal quest of self-important vengeance.

  2. Elizabeth


    24 өдрийн өмнө

    Neither of these are mentally balanced people nor are their children, and this is what makes it so hillarious

  3. Jack Myers

    Jack Myers

    27 өдрийн өмнө

    Kratos for the win

  4. MellorineKnight


    Сарын өмнө

    I'd like to remind everyone, that Kratos had a daughter too, who got massacered by her own dad. Oh yeah, and Kratos went to the otherworld one time, and met her daughter another time. And left her there.

  5. DarthVella


    Сарын өмнө

    I want to say Kratos was able to let Atreus lead and learn from his own mistakes on occasion, more than Joel did Ellie. Kratos didn't intend to offer strangers assistance, but (more or less often depending on player choice) deferred to Atreus's insistence on the pretext of gathering supplies for the journey. He also took the time to drill lessons about trusting strangers and human nature when appropriate, but also expressed satisfaction and pride in his son's empathy and kindness as the game goes on. Kratos opened up and encouraged his son's autonomy and growth. I don't recall the same kind of loose-rein parenting in The Last of Us. In fact, it's kind of an unfair comparison. God of War is about Kratos learning to be a good father to his son over the course of the game; The Last of Us is about Joel's long-buried dad instincts slowly kicking in against his will over someone who is narratively just a package to be delivered, at least until near the end of the game where he decides otherwise. They are both great games and great character arcs, mind you, I'm just debating a point here.

  6. Tyler Bohn

    Tyler Bohn

    Сарын өмнө

    This wasn't really a fair fight. Joel at least knows how to parent

  7. Andrew Michael

    Andrew Michael

    Сарын өмнө

    Wait- no more Slightly Civil War?! First Uncivil War and now this. Why must you stomp on my heart?! 😢

  8. sneakyskunk1


    Сарын өмнө

    "Aww maaan....." Swiper N. Swiping, in response to the end of Slightly Civil War

  9. J 7041

    J 7041

    Сарын өмнө

    3:42 - Never has "proper methods to wrap up a dead body for burning" been said with more excitement... :D

  10. UnreasonableOpinions


    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos overcomes his fierce instinct for brutal selfish violence in order to demonstrate to his son that there is a better way to be than the way he has been, using his past as a lesson. When Kratos is called out for the things he has done, he is honest in the relationship even if it might cost him. Joel uses Ellie as proof that he is better than the way he has been, to pretend he is above his past. The moment that Ellie is threatened he instantly resorts to maximum violence, and then lies about it for years because if Ellie can't see the fake Joel he made up he would have to admit it is fake and that he hasn't changed.

  11. Picard is Wesley's Father

    Picard is Wesley's Father

    Сарын өмнө

    Is Brad or Rando the better father figure?

  12. Amanda Belaire

    Amanda Belaire

    Сарын өмнө

    Gonna miss this format. I loved it.

  13. AmberAmbitions


    Сарын өмнө

    I am firmly in the Kratos camp. They're both relatively shit fathers. I mean, they're dragging their child figures into combat, so they can't be that great. But Kratos isn't like actively teaching his child to go on a long quest of vengeance and selfishness. If anything, throughout the game, he's trying to teach Atreus to be better than him. To not get caught up in vengeance and hatred and the cycle of violence, while still teaching him to be self-sufficient and responsible. Part of the conflict of the game is Kratos hoping that Atreus doesn't turn out like he did, not out of selfishness or fear of death, but because he doesn't want Atreus to be weighed down like Kratos is. Meanwhile, Joel just kept that cycle of violence and vengeance chugging along quite happily, like a trolley problem with only one track with everyone on it.

  14. Fiction Finatic35

    Fiction Finatic35

    Сарын өмнө

    I am going to miss the animated portions of these videos.

  15. mutalord


    Сарын өмнө

    both suck at parenting.... the end

  16. Chickabumpbump


    Сарын өмнө

    Mixed!? I haven’t seen any people hating on it

  17. TheCreepypro


    Сарын өмнө

    a fitting end to this series when we first started Jack struggled against Yahtzee's superior debating skills but now not only does he hold his own I say Jack won this one by a country mile the learner has truly become the master

  18. Phillip Skimerhorn

    Phillip Skimerhorn

    Сарын өмнө

    It's a bit sad to see Slightly Civil War go, but even from the beginning I wondered how long the opposing views format would last. Definitely glad the podcast style conversations are continuing!

  19. Beutimus


    Сарын өмнө

    "Yummy hairy dads" yuuuus

  20. Stax


    Сарын өмнө

    Noo, but I came for the Cartoon guys arguing about stuff. The little animated jokes are the best part.

  21. One Belligerent Idiot

    One Belligerent Idiot

    Сарын өмнө

    geralt of rivia

  22. U. Flame

    U. Flame

    Сарын өмнө

    "True equality will be when females can get punched for laughs" Tales of Berseria gave us Magilou, whose antics were got her punched by the cast quite often

  23. Great Anomaly

    Great Anomaly

    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos a spartan, trying to raise a kid in a nuclear family (minus the mum after a bit) and not destroying him in rage is pretty good imo

  24. Danimal DM

    Danimal DM

    Сарын өмнө

    Didn't Kratos murder his first kid...

  25. OfficialGageThePyro


    Сарын өмнө

    That Last Of Us Giraffe made us all cry



    Сарын өмнө

    Half the hair, twice the dad ... HAHAHAHA

  27. smallbar2012


    Сарын өмнө

    I'm just here to recognize and celebrate the acknowledgment granted to Stargate in this episode. Thanks, Yahtzee.

  28. MungkaeX


    Сарын өмнө

    I think this debate has proven that Yoshi is the best Bearded Dad.

  29. Okra Vendakkai

    Okra Vendakkai

    Сарын өмнө

    Jackard, the Thulsa Doom of gaming content formats.

  30. MarKell Easter

    MarKell Easter

    Сарын өмнө

    That rebuttal for being dead was hilarious

  31. accquizzer


    Сарын өмнө

    I am going to miss the Slightly Civil War format. There is so much they could have done. They could have done the console wars for each generation (Sega Genesis vs. Super Nintendo, PlayStation 1 vs. Nintendo 64, PlayStation 2 vs. XBox, etc.) or they could have done video game genre rivalries (Guitar Hero vs. Rock Band, Battlefield vs. Medal of Honor, Resident Evil vs Silent Hill, etc.). There's a lot of controversial and debatable topics in video games. It was nice to hear both sides argued in a logical, reasonable and polite manner.

  32. Chicken Powder

    Chicken Powder

    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos of course.

  33. LeighPouse


    Сарын өмнө

    The Norse version of Hell is... Hel. (Ok, sometimes it's Niflheim but still).

  34. Alder Bernhardt

    Alder Bernhardt

    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos killed his first child Bam Joel wins

  35. slloom


    Сарын өмнө

    will the video have major spoilers not slight ones be warn whomever read the comment before watching the video 🙂👍

  36. Simon Singh

    Simon Singh

    Сарын өмнө

    Hahahaha, ‘grumpy Tealc from Stargate face’ is my favourite description of someone’s appearance I’ve ever heard

  37. unjointedgoose8


    Сарын өмнө

    I’ve loved slightly civil war and the podcast, but I’m very happy to hear the podcast will be continuing despite slightly civil war ending

  38. MrGesellenstueck


    Сарын өмнө

    Both are violent murdering madmen...But nice daddys

  39. thepointyone100


    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos kept his son alive for an entire game Joel......... First 5 minutes

  40. DEATHrocket777


    Сарын өмнө

    Can you really say Joel had all his hair if he lost half his head?

  41. DEATHrocket777


    Сарын өмнө

    Oof, did Yahtzee forget that Joel had a daughter before the world went to shit? He already had some idea of how to raise a girl.

  42. DEATHrocket777


    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos certainly dropped the ball on the whole dad thing in the beginning there, didn't he? Nice to see him come around though.

  43. MemoTheNinja


    Сарын өмнө

    But the real question is, did these games make you a better father?🤔

  44. xybp942


    Сарын өмнө

    will miss the series

  45. Seosamh Wray

    Seosamh Wray

    Сарын өмнө

    Do Americans not know what words like "both" and "either" mean? They always seem to use "one or the other" phrases with more two selections.

  46. Z N

    Z N

    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos, because hes alive

  47. Nicholas Frontier

    Nicholas Frontier

    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos because they ruined Joel

  48. Will Hingley

    Will Hingley

    Сарын өмнө

    Too late, I am dispair ☹️

  49. wobbly sauce

    wobbly sauce

    Сарын өмнө

    Why just say GoW 4...

    • Caye Daws

      Caye Daws

      Сарын өмнө

      It's like the 7th game.

  50. Whitney Asante

    Whitney Asante

    Сарын өмнө

    I'm pretty sure it's Hel and Kratos taught Atreus how to escape there when they had to make the trip there because Atreus got them trapped there when he was being a butthead. Also if I'm not mistaken Atreus' daughter Hela is gonna be running that place soon so that's a thing but he's also the father of the world serpent I think so I'm thinking Atreus' sexual ethos might be both very similar and slightly different than his father's. As long as he doesn't take unarmed women and maim them for random interactive puzzles or kill that one guy they keep running into for comedic effect, I'd give the win to Kratos.

  51. TheAwesomeHyperon


    Сарын өмнө

    I’m gonna miss this show, I liked the animated parts.

  52. Pine0wlple X44

    Pine0wlple X44

    Сарын өмнө

    I’d like to point out that Joel killed a cult of scientologist to rescue Ellie. Kratos killed an entire pantheon of gods in revenge for his family!

  53. Joseph Martins

    Joseph Martins

    Сарын өмнө

    Lee Everett is the best dad out of the “dad games” genre.

    • MrBanditoRazor


      Сарын өмнө

      Hands fucking down

  54. God


    Сарын өмнө

    They are both terrible father figures and if you look up to a video game character like that get help

  55. birdfish86


    Сарын өмнө

    1st neither of them are good fathers. 2nd loved this show sad its over i dont have a hour of my time to listen to your podcast so guess back to the only thing i watch on your channel being zero punctuation

  56. bird3713


    Сарын өмнө

    Wait, reactions to Slightly Civil War were mixed?!

  57. Daron


    Сарын өмнө

    "Still had all his hair". Can't say the same thing about his brain

  58. Joshua Levenberg

    Joshua Levenberg

    Сарын өмнө

    Kratos is better than Joel because he's not boring. The latter is just your generic grumpy survivor with nothing to him other than Texan pride and a Papa Wolf drive. The former, on the other hand, has a compelling tough love mentality that urges him to act cold and stern to his son in order to teach him about life's hardships. At the same time, Kratos notices that his behavior is hurting his relationship with Atreus' and worries that the cycle of son v father will continue, which makes Kratos turn things around. In short, the Ghost of Sparta goes through slow but dynamic character development from the start to finish while Joel only goes through "The kid is a commodity" straight to "That kid is my surrogate daughter" within hours.

  59. Stevie


    Сарын өмнө

    I'm surprised yahtzee didn't bring up the fact that Kratos murdered his first child.

  60. Joshua Manriguez

    Joshua Manriguez

    Сарын өмнө

    You fools. Asura from Asura's Wrath is the best dad. He punched God to death for the mortal sin of making his daughter cry.

  61. GuitarAndHisBoy


    Сарын өмнө

    Leon, the professional.

  62. Timothy Creighton

    Timothy Creighton

    Сарын өмнө

    Some are born Hairy dads, Some achieve hairy dadness, and some have hairy dadness thrust upon them

  63. Cory Long

    Cory Long

    Сарын өмнө

    I don't mind Slightly Civil War ending, but I strongly suggest there be a format or concept and not just an open ended rambling podcast among the dozens of my favorite content creators doing the same thing. I'm sure Jack and Yahtzee will still be great, but it's really tough to get motivated to tune in to those sorts of things, especially if they're weekly. And are they still going to talk about extremely specific topics, or are they just gonna discuss the general gaming news everybody else is talking about now?

  64. Jonah Falcon

    Jonah Falcon

    Сарын өмнө

    But I'll miss the animation... 😥

  65. Un Wey Básico

    Un Wey Básico

    Сарын өмнө

    I'm gonna miss civil war :(

  66. AnotherBookishLycanthrope


    Сарын өмнө

    Subject Delta wins

  67. Atomica


    Сарын өмнө

    Between Joel, Kratos, Booker, Lee and Wolverine arc, My champion favorite fictional Hairy Dad arc was Goofy's from A Goofy Movie because it's the only one to end in an overwhelming positive note and a dance number.

  68. c c

    c c

    Сарын өмнө

    dang. this was one of my favorite programs on this channel :(. Definitely will miss it

    • Thapion


      Сарын өмнө

      Same, love the animations

  69. Joshua Levenberg

    Joshua Levenberg

    Сарын өмнө

    "Kratos hasn't died in front of Atreus yet." HA! Just you wait till GOW: Ragnarok when Thor savagely kills Kratos with his hammer for the death of his brother and sons only for Atreus to go on a revenge spree across Asgard and have a futile duel with Thor, who you play as for half the game. JK, please don't let Last of Us II be the inspiration for this game, Santa Monica Studios.

  70. Jordan Thebeast95

    Jordan Thebeast95

    Сарын өмнө

    They're two very different father figures when you break down all aspects of their respective relationships. They both struggle with parenting atreus and ellie, guiding them onto a path to become good people... In that respect Kratos did his job as a parent a lot better. Kratos from the very beginning informs atreus how to be a better warrior, and over the course of a game teaches him the qualities and virtues of a "strong", or responsible person. By the end of the game, they end on the lesson that its more important to be a good person, and that's a shared lesson between father and son. Kratos guides atrues to a level of emotional growth that he didn't even have at the beginning of the game, this guy was still asking his dead wife for help, but he did a damn good job by the time they're spreading her ashes. Joel is a father figure, definitely. Joel and Ellie share beautiful moments too, they grow together as well, but the thing with last of us is that series exists as a cautionary tale in contrast to God of War's hopeful message. Joel's reward for the journey is to have a second chance as a father figure and he achieves this goal for sure, but in terms of guiding the child, Joel unfortunately guides her in very negative ways, she is hardened during their journey and the outcome of it all ends with Ellie being a very vengeful person. That's actually how I could have picture Atreus raised by a Greek-era Kratos, but the God of War changed, and I really don't see Atrues following in his father's footsteps and make the same mistake his father did the way Ellie did in Last of Us part 2; We'll have to wait and see in Ragnarok how things play out but as of now, Kratos and Atreus's goal to be genuinely good people is important. Last of Us Part 2 is essentially a consequence of Joel's parenting style. So in my mind, Kratos is the better father in the sense that Kratos had to change as a human being to raise a good kid. Joel however guided and nurtured Ellie, yes, but Joel is a selfish parent that inadvertently taught her a poor moral structure.

  71. BeginswithPIE


    Сарын өмнө

    I think it should be noted that Kratos fully believed for a while that his son was going to eventually kill him, just like he killed his own father, and his father killed his father, and his father killed his father. He was watching that little shit go through an identity crisis that was almost certainly going to lead to him wanting to murder Kratos, but stuck with him anyways. Kratos had every reason to abandon his son to die or snap the kids neck, but he didn't. Ellie wasn't exactly going through a rebellious teenage phase. (I don't think. I stopped playing the game because I got bored around the fourth group of bandits so maybe she started to get pretty rebellious.) Which made Joel's job a lot easier. So I'd argue that Kratos should be given a lot more points than he was given.

    • Seosamh Wray

      Seosamh Wray

      Сарын өмнө

      Considering that the parecide generally directly results from the fathers either abandoning or trying to kill their children, Kratos not turning on his son despite a prophecy that his kid might kill him, is exactly the right move. Imagine if Kronos didn't try eating his children? Or if Zeus didn't try to stop athena by doing something similar to her mother. Every time the guy in charge got that particular prophecy he gave his kids reason to turn on him.

  72. Shodar87


    Сарын өмнө

    Jack should have said that Kratos is better father figure for being simply alive :) edit lol

  73. Dylan Cox

    Dylan Cox

    Сарын өмнө

    I love this format and am sad to see it go, but will be here for whatever format you’re on to next. Just, please, include your hilarious animations and don’t let Fact Jack disappear!!!

  74. Pravication


    Сарын өмнө

    Everyone says Joel learned to be a parent in The Last of Us. Dude already had a daughter in the prologue. He was bringing out his dormant dad powers over the course of the game.

    • sasukeuchiha998


      28 өдрийн өмнө

      Both dads had previous children who also died.

    • ChumBucket347


      Сарын өмнө

      Dormant dad powers is my new favorite term

  75. ToddTheTolerable


    Сарын өмнө

    I dream of one day getting to see Yahtzee's cartoon avatar sitting at a Best Of The Worst panel.

  76. Ola cheney

    Ola cheney

    Сарын өмнө

    Ellie goes through an entire ocean of people, killing countless, only to not kill the person she set out to kill in the first place. It was a pointless journey. She became a sudden pacifist at the end... when you consider that there are still countless murderers between her and getting back home after her "pacifist" choice, you realize she won't be getting back home alive if she keeps that forced mindset.

  77. Bercilak


    Сарын өмнө

    "can't be dead *and* a good father" *Mufasa has entered the chat*

  78. Tim Stolarz

    Tim Stolarz

    Сарын өмнө

    One of the arguments is that Joel is out of his element raising ellie since she's a growing girl.... But didn't Joel have a daughter before she got blasted? So he does have daughter experience, but then you could say he doesn't have experience with an older, maturing daughter in which I guess is true

  79. Cesar Diaz

    Cesar Diaz

    Сарын өмнө

    Great Toast vs Jell



    Сарын өмнө

    You guys seemed to forget they both had kids before the current children.

    • Gamma Gong

      Gamma Gong

      Сарын өмнө


  81. Brock Lancaster

    Brock Lancaster

    Сарын өмнө

    Every guys ultimate goal should be to be a yummy hairy dad. Or is that just me.

    • Roguepsyker Haaker

      Roguepsyker Haaker

      Сарын өмнө

      I'll settle for yummy

    • shotgunshells2


      Сарын өмнө

      I'll settle for yummy and hairy tbh.

  82. Mads Bolding

    Mads Bolding

    Сарын өмнө

    ... and now for something slightly different.

    • Nathan E

      Nathan E

      Сарын өмнө


  83. Derek Barnett

    Derek Barnett

    Сарын өмнө

    OMG y'all changed the whole show format just so you could have more unrepentant Dark Souls chats, didn't you? I'm so proud.

  84. MSNBC


    Сарын өмнө

    Neither of them are even okay. Both of them have doomed entire humanity into peril lmao.

  85. Arstotzkan At The DMZ

    Arstotzkan At The DMZ

    Сарын өмнө

    I will say kratos did actually fucking kill one of his families so that doesnt really bode well for him

    • RedTuke Guy

      RedTuke Guy

      Сарын өмнө

      Good points. The both of you! Lmao

    • noc7urnalNeme5i5


      Сарын өмнө

      He's taught Atraeus to not suffer a toxic influence in their life, even if they are family.

  86. II


    Сарын өмнө

    Strangely enough, Kratos.

  87. Steven Thomas

    Steven Thomas

    Сарын өмнө

    Slightly civil war was ok, the podcast was the better part though, and likely the least work of the two parts (I'm thinking mainly in terms of animating), and I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

  88. Blaszy


    Сарын өмнө

    I never knew how much I needed a more hairy dad in my life

  89. Ace_sabo_luffy__


    Сарын өмнө

    I was very conflicted but yhatsee won me over with the boldness trump card. Im allowed to say that because I’m ginger. Good video dudes

  90. Francesco


    Сарын өмнө

    Hard to say. We'll have to wait and see how Atreus will react when Kratos will die (again) as it was foreshadowed at the end of the 4' game. If he goes on a murder spree...i say equal with Joel having an edge just because Ellie has shown that she is capable of having a relationship. If that doesn't happen Kratos win because he succeded in making his son a better person than he is.



    Сарын өмнө

    Good video. But you missed something. 🤔 Joel had a biological daughter called Sarah you meet her in the first chapter of the game. Ellie can defend herself. Roughly halfway through the game at the Hotel chapter. Joe teaches Ellie how to use a Sniper Riifle. At the end of this chapter he gives her a Handgun. Also Ellie has a switch blade and can of throw bricks and bottles to attack or distract enemies before this. There are two chapters in the game where you play as Ellie. One were you're searching for food and medicine. In both these chapters Ellie variety of Weapons. The other one was DLC its included in the PS4 version. It Goes into her back story in this chapter, you have to search that medicine. While Joel is out of action.

  92. Joel Bridge

    Joel Bridge

    Сарын өмнө

    I still can't believe that people are but hard about part 2 wanted honestly a great game it's just emotionally draining.

  93. Devon King

    Devon King

    Сарын өмнө

    In myth Balder comes back to life after Ragnarock, so Loki can't even kill correctly.

    • Levi Walton

      Levi Walton

      Сарын өмнө

      @Joshua Levenberg Loki is not related to Thor in the myth, he was Odin's blood brother.

    • Joshua Levenberg

      Joshua Levenberg

      Сарын өмнө

      Considering Loki is supposed to be Thor's half brother and not the grandson of Zeus, I don't think the myths apply.

    • Levi Walton

      Levi Walton

      Сарын өмнө

      Considering how much they screwed up Greek mythology I wouldn't be surprised if they screwed up Norse as well.

  94. Spandan Dasgupta

    Spandan Dasgupta

    Сарын өмнө

    Red's father from Pokemon is the best father figure ever

  95. Elite Mook

    Elite Mook

    Сарын өмнө

    Joel did nothing wrong. Change my mind.

    • Elite Mook

      Elite Mook

      Сарын өмнө

      @MJ C Ellie was unconscious. The fireflies never let her wake up after she nearly drowned they just wanted to cut up her brain as quckly as possible. They asserted that she would want to die for the cure and then threatended Joels life when he questioned them about it. They resorted to force first. Joel was justified in responding in kind. Elie was mad at joel partly because he lied to her about it, and also because it's easier to be mad at him then be mad at something abstract.

    • Linkin7


      Сарын өмнө

      @MJ C She doesnt know that they need to kill her to make the cure, now we know that she will sacrifice herself, if she has the choice but they find her passed out and dont wait until she wake up.

    • MJ C

      MJ C

      Сарын өмнө

      @Elite Mook Bro, no they weren't. Why do you think Ellie stays mad at Joel in the second game? Where do you get this idea that the fireflies made the choice for her?

    • Elite Mook

      Elite Mook

      Сарын өмнө

      @MJ C we, the audiance know that Elie would have said yes, but as far as Joel knew the fireflies were the ones making the choice for her.

    • MJ C

      MJ C

      Сарын өмнө

      @Elite Mook Presented her with a choice? What are you talking about? Ellie wanted to sacrifice herself to find a cure. Joel's the one that took that choice away from her. This is made very clear in the end of the first game but most especially in the second game.

  96. srdjan455


    Сарын өмнө

    But now I wonder which dad they will take inspiration from when it comes to raising their own child

    • Joel Tenson

      Joel Tenson

      Сарын өмнө

      Either way, people are gonna die

  97. Z Y

    Z Y

    Сарын өмнө

    Asura from Asura's wrath; no contest

    • Tes_art


      Сарын өмнө

      Asura is the greatest dad

    • ZEeduardo94


      Сарын өмнө

      I see you're a man of culture as well. But yeah, Asura breaks the entire reality to save his daughter. That's a dad for ya

    • Joel Bridge

      Joel Bridge

      Сарын өмнө

      Underrated comments

  98. Evil Jon Clone 666

    Evil Jon Clone 666

    Сарын өмнө

    Liam Neeson in fallout 3 no question

  99. Vanguard


    Сарын өмнө

    Marston Duo's best father son relationship come at me

    • P


      Сарын өмнө

      isn’t their whole thing that there’s a pretty big rift between them

  100. Joey Parkhill

    Joey Parkhill

    Сарын өмнө

    Neither Kratos or Joel are good fathers. That honor goes to Yahtzee!