Lest we forget, Kratos murdered his first kid and wife, due to a power he prayed to Ares for, and then went on a tantrum-like genocidal quest of self-important vengeance.

Neither of these are mentally balanced people nor are their children, and this is what makes it so hillarious

Kratos for the win

I'd like to remind everyone, that Kratos had a daughter too, who got massacered by her own dad. Oh yeah, and Kratos went to the otherworld one time, and met her daughter another time. And left her there.

I want to say Kratos was able to let Atreus lead and learn from his own mistakes on occasion, more than Joel did Ellie. Kratos didn't intend to offer strangers assistance, but (more or less often depending on player choice) deferred to Atreus's insistence on the pretext of gathering supplies for the journey. He also took the time to drill lessons about trusting strangers and human nature when appropriate, but also expressed satisfaction and pride in his son's empathy and kindness as the game goes on. Kratos opened up and encouraged his son's autonomy and growth. I don't recall the same kind of loose-rein parenting in The Last of Us. In fact, it's kind of an unfair comparison. God of War is about Kratos learning to be a good father to his son over the course of the game; The Last of Us is about Joel's long-buried dad instincts slowly kicking in against his will over someone who is narratively just a package to be delivered, at least until near the end of the game where he decides otherwise. They are both great games and great character arcs, mind you, I'm just debating a point here.

This wasn't really a fair fight. Joel at least knows how to parent

Wait- no more Slightly Civil War?! First Uncivil War and now this. Why must you stomp on my heart?! 😢

"Aww maaan....." Swiper N. Swiping, in response to the end of Slightly Civil War

3:42 - Never has "proper methods to wrap up a dead body for burning" been said with more excitement... :D

Kratos overcomes his fierce instinct for brutal selfish violence in order to demonstrate to his son that there is a better way to be than the way he has been, using his past as a lesson. When Kratos is called out for the things he has done, he is honest in the relationship even if it might cost him. Joel uses Ellie as proof that he is better than the way he has been, to pretend he is above his past. The moment that Ellie is threatened he instantly resorts to maximum violence, and then lies about it for years because if Ellie can't see the fake Joel he made up he would have to admit it is fake and that he hasn't changed.

Is Brad or Rando the better father figure?

Gonna miss this format. I loved it.

I am firmly in the Kratos camp. They're both relatively shit fathers. I mean, they're dragging their child figures into combat, so they can't be that great. But Kratos isn't like actively teaching his child to go on a long quest of vengeance and selfishness. If anything, throughout the game, he's trying to teach Atreus to be better than him. To not get caught up in vengeance and hatred and the cycle of violence, while still teaching him to be self-sufficient and responsible. Part of the conflict of the game is Kratos hoping that Atreus doesn't turn out like he did, not out of selfishness or fear of death, but because he doesn't want Atreus to be weighed down like Kratos is. Meanwhile, Joel just kept that cycle of violence and vengeance chugging along quite happily, like a trolley problem with only one track with everyone on it.

I am going to miss the animated portions of these videos.

both suck at parenting.... the end

Mixed!? I haven’t seen any people hating on it

a fitting end to this series when we first started Jack struggled against Yahtzee's superior debating skills but now not only does he hold his own I say Jack won this one by a country mile the learner has truly become the master

It's a bit sad to see Slightly Civil War go, but even from the beginning I wondered how long the opposing views format would last. Definitely glad the podcast style conversations are continuing!

"Yummy hairy dads" yuuuus

Noo, but I came for the Cartoon guys arguing about stuff. The little animated jokes are the best part.

geralt of rivia

"True equality will be when females can get punched for laughs" Tales of Berseria gave us Magilou, whose antics were got her punched by the cast quite often

Kratos a spartan, trying to raise a kid in a nuclear family (minus the mum after a bit) and not destroying him in rage is pretty good imo

Didn't Kratos murder his first kid...

That Last Of Us Giraffe made us all cry

Half the hair, twice the dad ... HAHAHAHA

I'm just here to recognize and celebrate the acknowledgment granted to Stargate in this episode. Thanks, Yahtzee.

I think this debate has proven that Yoshi is the best Bearded Dad.

Jackard, the Thulsa Doom of gaming content formats.

That rebuttal for being dead was hilarious

I am going to miss the Slightly Civil War format. There is so much they could have done. They could have done the console wars for each generation (Sega Genesis vs. Super Nintendo, PlayStation 1 vs. Nintendo 64, PlayStation 2 vs. XBox, etc.) or they could have done video game genre rivalries (Guitar Hero vs. Rock Band, Battlefield vs. Medal of Honor, Resident Evil vs Silent Hill, etc.). There's a lot of controversial and debatable topics in video games. It was nice to hear both sides argued in a logical, reasonable and polite manner.

Kratos of course.

The Norse version of Hell is... Hel. (Ok, sometimes it's Niflheim but still).

Kratos killed his first child Bam Joel wins

will the video have major spoilers not slight ones be warn whomever read the comment before watching the video 🙂👍

Hahahaha, ‘grumpy Tealc from Stargate face’ is my favourite description of someone’s appearance I’ve ever heard

I’ve loved slightly civil war and the podcast, but I’m very happy to hear the podcast will be continuing despite slightly civil war ending

Both are violent murdering madmen...But nice daddys

Kratos kept his son alive for an entire game Joel......... First 5 minutes

Can you really say Joel had all his hair if he lost half his head?

Oof, did Yahtzee forget that Joel had a daughter before the world went to shit? He already had some idea of how to raise a girl.

Kratos certainly dropped the ball on the whole dad thing in the beginning there, didn't he? Nice to see him come around though.

But the real question is, did these games make you a better father?🤔

will miss the series

Do Americans not know what words like "both" and "either" mean? They always seem to use "one or the other" phrases with more two selections.

Kratos, because hes alive

Kratos because they ruined Joel

Too late, I am dispair ☹️

Why just say GoW 4...

I'm pretty sure it's Hel and Kratos taught Atreus how to escape there when they had to make the trip there because Atreus got them trapped there when he was being a butthead. Also if I'm not mistaken Atreus' daughter Hela is gonna be running that place soon so that's a thing but he's also the father of the world serpent I think so I'm thinking Atreus' sexual ethos might be both very similar and slightly different than his father's. As long as he doesn't take unarmed women and maim them for random interactive puzzles or kill that one guy they keep running into for comedic effect, I'd give the win to Kratos.

I’m gonna miss this show, I liked the animated parts.

I’d like to point out that Joel killed a cult of scientologist to rescue Ellie. Kratos killed an entire pantheon of gods in revenge for his family!

Lee Everett is the best dad out of the “dad games” genre.

They are both terrible father figures and if you look up to a video game character like that get help

1st neither of them are good fathers. 2nd loved this show sad its over i dont have a hour of my time to listen to your podcast so guess back to the only thing i watch on your channel being zero punctuation

Wait, reactions to Slightly Civil War were mixed?!

"Still had all his hair". Can't say the same thing about his brain

Kratos is better than Joel because he's not boring. The latter is just your generic grumpy survivor with nothing to him other than Texan pride and a Papa Wolf drive. The former, on the other hand, has a compelling tough love mentality that urges him to act cold and stern to his son in order to teach him about life's hardships. At the same time, Kratos notices that his behavior is hurting his relationship with Atreus' and worries that the cycle of son v father will continue, which makes Kratos turn things around. In short, the Ghost of Sparta goes through slow but dynamic character development from the start to finish while Joel only goes through "The kid is a commodity" straight to "That kid is my surrogate daughter" within hours.

I'm surprised yahtzee didn't bring up the fact that Kratos murdered his first child.

You fools. Asura from Asura's Wrath is the best dad. He punched God to death for the mortal sin of making his daughter cry.

Leon, the professional.

Some are born Hairy dads, Some achieve hairy dadness, and some have hairy dadness thrust upon them

I don't mind Slightly Civil War ending, but I strongly suggest there be a format or concept and not just an open ended rambling podcast among the dozens of my favorite content creators doing the same thing. I'm sure Jack and Yahtzee will still be great, but it's really tough to get motivated to tune in to those sorts of things, especially if they're weekly. And are they still going to talk about extremely specific topics, or are they just gonna discuss the general gaming news everybody else is talking about now?

But I'll miss the animation... 😥

I'm gonna miss civil war :(

Subject Delta wins

Between Joel, Kratos, Booker, Lee and Wolverine arc, My champion favorite fictional Hairy Dad arc was Goofy's from A Goofy Movie because it's the only one to end in an overwhelming positive note and a dance number.

dang. this was one of my favorite programs on this channel :(. Definitely will miss it

"Kratos hasn't died in front of Atreus yet." HA! Just you wait till GOW: Ragnarok when Thor savagely kills Kratos with his hammer for the death of his brother and sons only for Atreus to go on a revenge spree across Asgard and have a futile duel with Thor, who you play as for half the game. JK, please don't let Last of Us II be the inspiration for this game, Santa Monica Studios.

They're two very different father figures when you break down all aspects of their respective relationships. They both struggle with parenting atreus and ellie, guiding them onto a path to become good people... In that respect Kratos did his job as a parent a lot better. Kratos from the very beginning informs atreus how to be a better warrior, and over the course of a game teaches him the qualities and virtues of a "strong", or responsible person. By the end of the game, they end on the lesson that its more important to be a good person, and that's a shared lesson between father and son. Kratos guides atrues to a level of emotional growth that he didn't even have at the beginning of the game, this guy was still asking his dead wife for help, but he did a damn good job by the time they're spreading her ashes. Joel is a father figure, definitely. Joel and Ellie share beautiful moments too, they grow together as well, but the thing with last of us is that series exists as a cautionary tale in contrast to God of War's hopeful message. Joel's reward for the journey is to have a second chance as a father figure and he achieves this goal for sure, but in terms of guiding the child, Joel unfortunately guides her in very negative ways, she is hardened during their journey and the outcome of it all ends with Ellie being a very vengeful person. That's actually how I could have picture Atreus raised by a Greek-era Kratos, but the God of War changed, and I really don't see Atrues following in his father's footsteps and make the same mistake his father did the way Ellie did in Last of Us part 2; We'll have to wait and see in Ragnarok how things play out but as of now, Kratos and Atreus's goal to be genuinely good people is important. Last of Us Part 2 is essentially a consequence of Joel's parenting style. So in my mind, Kratos is the better father in the sense that Kratos had to change as a human being to raise a good kid. Joel however guided and nurtured Ellie, yes, but Joel is a selfish parent that inadvertently taught her a poor moral structure.

I think it should be noted that Kratos fully believed for a while that his son was going to eventually kill him, just like he killed his own father, and his father killed his father, and his father killed his father. He was watching that little shit go through an identity crisis that was almost certainly going to lead to him wanting to murder Kratos, but stuck with him anyways. Kratos had every reason to abandon his son to die or snap the kids neck, but he didn't. Ellie wasn't exactly going through a rebellious teenage phase. (I don't think. I stopped playing the game because I got bored around the fourth group of bandits so maybe she started to get pretty rebellious.) Which made Joel's job a lot easier. So I'd argue that Kratos should be given a lot more points than he was given.

Jack should have said that Kratos is better father figure for being simply alive :) edit lol

I love this format and am sad to see it go, but will be here for whatever format you’re on to next. Just, please, include your hilarious animations and don’t let Fact Jack disappear!!!

Everyone says Joel learned to be a parent in The Last of Us. Dude already had a daughter in the prologue. He was bringing out his dormant dad powers over the course of the game.

I dream of one day getting to see Yahtzee's cartoon avatar sitting at a Best Of The Worst panel.

Ellie goes through an entire ocean of people, killing countless, only to not kill the person she set out to kill in the first place. It was a pointless journey. She became a sudden pacifist at the end... when you consider that there are still countless murderers between her and getting back home after her "pacifist" choice, you realize she won't be getting back home alive if she keeps that forced mindset.

"can't be dead *and* a good father" *Mufasa has entered the chat*

One of the arguments is that Joel is out of his element raising ellie since she's a growing girl.... But didn't Joel have a daughter before she got blasted? So he does have daughter experience, but then you could say he doesn't have experience with an older, maturing daughter in which I guess is true

Great Toast vs Jell

You guys seemed to forget they both had kids before the current children.

Every guys ultimate goal should be to be a yummy hairy dad. Or is that just me.

... and now for something slightly different.

OMG y'all changed the whole show format just so you could have more unrepentant Dark Souls chats, didn't you? I'm so proud.

Neither of them are even okay. Both of them have doomed entire humanity into peril lmao.

I will say kratos did actually fucking kill one of his families so that doesnt really bode well for him

Strangely enough, Kratos.

Slightly civil war was ok, the podcast was the better part though, and likely the least work of the two parts (I'm thinking mainly in terms of animating), and I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

I never knew how much I needed a more hairy dad in my life

I was very conflicted but yhatsee won me over with the boldness trump card. Im allowed to say that because I’m ginger. Good video dudes

Hard to say. We'll have to wait and see how Atreus will react when Kratos will die (again) as it was foreshadowed at the end of the 4' game. If he goes on a murder spree...i say equal with Joel having an edge just because Ellie has shown that she is capable of having a relationship. If that doesn't happen Kratos win because he succeded in making his son a better person than he is.

Good video. But you missed something. 🤔 Joel had a biological daughter called Sarah you meet her in the first chapter of the game. Ellie can defend herself. Roughly halfway through the game at the Hotel chapter. Joe teaches Ellie how to use a Sniper Riifle. At the end of this chapter he gives her a Handgun. Also Ellie has a switch blade and can of throw bricks and bottles to attack or distract enemies before this. There are two chapters in the game where you play as Ellie. One were you're searching for food and medicine. In both these chapters Ellie variety of Weapons. The other one was DLC its included in the PS4 version. It Goes into her back story in this chapter, you have to search that medicine. While Joel is out of action.

I still can't believe that people are but hard about part 2 wanted honestly a great game it's just emotionally draining.

In myth Balder comes back to life after Ragnarock, so Loki can't even kill correctly.

Red's father from Pokemon is the best father figure ever

Joel did nothing wrong. Change my mind.

But now I wonder which dad they will take inspiration from when it comes to raising their own child

Asura from Asura's wrath; no contest

Liam Neeson in fallout 3 no question

Marston Duo's best father son relationship come at me

Neither Kratos or Joel are good fathers. That honor goes to Yahtzee!